Challenge: Multiply the Turks

[Lupin]

http://www.alternatehistory.com/disc...ultiply+Greeks

Kind of inspired from this thread

Although they are numerous today, the Turkish people while numerous indeed are not as spread out as compared to other ethnic groups. To my knowledge, many Slavs, Greeks and Albanians converted to Islam and we see evidence of this in areas like Kosovo, Bosnia and Albania but they didn't necessarily see themselves as Turks though I'm sure their Christian counterparts certainly did.

The Turkish immigrants to Anatolia settled down and kept their own language and culture, displacing and/or assimilating the largely Greek and Armenian-speaking population of Anatolia. The Ottoman Empire didn't bring multiple successor states speaking local variations of Turkish the way that the old Roman Empire did in Spain, France, Italy, etc. They certainly had the capability to do so, I think.

Turk was considered an insult to refer to the Anatolian peoples and the nobility considered themselves distinct from such. Modern Turkish nationalism is a far recent thing that came with the decline of the Ottoman Empire and the establishment of the Republic of Turkey. There wasn't much of an attempt to Turkify the populations in the Balkans or in the Middle East for that matter. It didn't really matter. Being Muslim was enough.

How do we increase the numbers of Turks? I can accept PODs going back to the Seljuk Sultanate but I want to have this done with PODs after the establishment of the Ottomans. How do we get a larger amount of self-identified Turks spread over a much wider area in OTL?

[RBC]

So, you are talking Turks specifically, and not Turkic peoples?

[Straha]

Just turks and not turkic peoples? That's hard.

Have a less pluralistic and more culturally xenophobic/militant Ottoman empire. They could probably force the kurds, some levantine arabs and much of the southern balkans to identify as "Turkish"

[RBC]

Originally Posted by Straha

Just turks and not turkic peoples? That's hard.

Have a less pluralistic and more culturally xenophobic/militant Ottoman empire. They could probably force the kurds, some levantine arabs and much of the southern balkans to identify as "Turkish"

The problem is getting them onto a nationalistic bent. Perhaps if the Karamanids instead of the Ottomans become dominant in Anatolia, this is possible?

[Lupin]

I'm more concerned for the Turks rather than the Turkic peoples in general but you can feel free to bring some ideas as to expand the range of the Turkic populations.

I'm not exactly sure how to get the Ottomans to be nationalistic. Would be cool if someone like Abdul gave his perspective on this.

[RBC]

Well, if we can expad the Tatars instead, then perhaps in the 1200s or early 1300s they destroy the more powerful of the Rus principalities and bring those lands directly under their control. Then, the Tatars, present at that time beyond the Urals expand eastward, and voila, we have a Tatar analogue to Russia before long.

[Kasumi-GenX]

Originally Posted by RBC

Well, if we can expad the Tatars instead, then perhaps in the 1200s or early 1300s they destroy the more powerful of the Rus principalities and bring those lands directly under their control. Then, the Tatars, present at that time beyond the Urals expand eastward, and voila, we have a Tatar analogue to Russia before long.

In that way the turks could also discover America before the europeans find it.

[Lupin]

Originally Posted by RBC

Well, if we can expad the Tatars instead, then perhaps in the 1200s or early 1300s they destroy the more powerful of the Rus principalities and bring those lands directly under their control. Then, the Tatars, present at that time beyond the Urals expand eastward, and voila, we have a Tatar analogue to Russia before long.

I believe Midas did a timeline about it. A very good timeline.

[RBC]

Originally Posted by Lupin

I believe Midas did a timeline about it. A very good timeline.

Do you have a link?

Originally Posted by Kasumi-GenX

In that way the turks could also discover America before the europeans find it.

Not really. Bering and company only got out two hundred or more years after Columbus.

[Lupin]

http://www.alternatehistory.com/disc...d.php?t=140285

[Straha]

Originally Posted by Kasumi-GenX

In that way the turks could also discover America before the europeans find it.

No. Europe is more ideally located to discover the americas than the muslim world because of geography. Even in a hypothetical world where europe ended up islamicized(perhaps the old favorite POD of martel losing at tours), it'd be people from the emirates of Granada and Firanja taking advantage of that and not the turks.