which Cartridge is Better the 9mm or .45 Cal

[Ward]

So which one is better for SMG and Autos .

[Ward]

Myself I like the Stopping power of the .45 Cal round .

[mmmeee0]

9mm probably works better with a silencer right?

[RCAF Brat]

.45 (ca. 11.5mm) has greater penetrative ability and does more damage thanks to a larger and heavier bullet.

9mm (ca. 354cal) is lighter, making it easier to carry more. (Good for those who miss a lot) 9mm is also a lot cheaper than .45.

Which one is better would depend on what kind of job you want to do and under what circumstances are going to be doing it.

[stalkere]

AS always, "better" is what you want to do. Personally, I'd rather have the .40.
I tended to lean to the .45, and "old Slabsides" - the 1911, although the 9mm and the M-9 and the 18 round Magazine had a lot to recommend it.

At Ali Al Salim AB in Kuwait, some SPs had to take down an intruder. The autopsy report said there was 23 9mm slugs in the fellow, and he was still coming when a CMSgt with a .45 put him down permanently.

I'm not a pistol nut, but over Christmas, I got to fire my brother-in-law's Springfield XD in .45 - which is a nicer weapon than my old 1911. The XDM in .40 has a stopping power midway between the two rounds and a mag capacity between the two, also.

1911 .45 cal 9 rounds
M-9 9mm 18 rounds
XDM .40 cal 15 rounds

[bach sion]

Originally Posted by mmmeee0

9mm probably works better with a silencer right?

No, the 45ACP round, being subsonic is easier to lessen the noise.

[Ghost88]

Originally Posted by stalkere

AS always, "better" is what you want to do. Personally, I'd rather have the .40.
I tended to lean to the .45, and "old Slabsides" - the 1911, although the 9mm and the M-9 and the 18 round Magazine had a lot to recommend it.

At Ali Al Salim AB in Kuwait, some SPs had to take down an intruder. The autopsy report said there was 23 9mm slugs in the fellow, and he was still coming when a CMSgt with a .45 put him down permanently.

I'm not a pistol nut, but over Christmas, I got to fire my brother-in-law's Springfield XD in .45 - which is a nicer weapon than my old 1911. The XDM in .40 has a stopping power midway between the two rounds and a mag capacity between the two, also.

1911 .45 cal 9 rounds
M-9 9mm 18 rounds
XDM .40 cal 15 rounds

Springfield XD .45 is 14 rounds, 13 in the mag.( 11 for long periods) 1 in the spout.
If you need more than 1 or two rounds to take down a target then you need a Shotgun.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by RCAF Brat

.45 (ca. 11.5mm) has greater penetrative ability and does more damage thanks to a larger and heavier bullet.

I thought the smaller and lighter 9mm had better penetration by virtue of greater velocity.

At Ali Al Salim AB in Kuwait, some SPs had to take down an intruder. The autopsy report said there was 23 9mm slugs in the fellow, and he was still coming when a CMSgt with a .45 put him down permanently.

That's a bit disingenuous. It makes it sound like the guy could have stood there being shot with 9mm all day long without dropping.

[mmmeee0]

Originally Posted by bach sion

No, the 45ACP round, being subsonic is easier to lessen the noise.

I can't change my vote.

[stalkere]

Originally Posted by Landshark

I thought the smaller and lighter 9mm had better penetration by virtue of greater velocity.


That's a bit disingenuous. It makes it sound like the guy could have stood there being shot with 9mm all day long without dropping.

Penetration is not always good. That's one of the major fallacies of trying to interpret results without looking at the whole picture - particularly if you haven't been in combat.

The big thing in combat shooting is, "How much energy from the bullet is transferred to the target?"

E= m (v^2) is a large part, but not the only part.

So, getting back to the practical aspects. Lesse, my personal experience is that I've shot a few guys with the 9mm, didn't kill any of those four. Both fellows I shot with the .45 were DRT - dead right there, one shot each. Now, all six fellows were center-of-mass hits, but two 9mm in center of mass left the fellow still shooting at me until one of my troops put some 5.56 in his skull.

And no, I'm not talking about video games, I'm talking about personal experience. So, yes, I do like the .45 for very practical reasons, OK?

[American God]

Originally Posted by stalkere

Penetration is not always good. That's one of the major fallacies of trying to interpret results without looking at the whole picture - particularly if you haven't been in combat.

The big thing in combat shooting is, "How much energy from the bullet is transferred to the target?"

E= m (v^2) is a large part, but not the only part.

So, getting back to the practical aspects. Lesse, my personal experience is that I've shot a few guys with the 9mm, didn't kill any of those four. Both fellows I shot with the .45 were DRT - dead right there, one shot each. Now, all six fellows were center-of-mass hits, but two 9mm in center of mass left the fellow still shooting at me until one of my troops put some 5.56 in his skull.

And no, I'm not talking about video games, I'm talking about personal experience. So, yes, I do like the .45 for very practical reasons, OK?

Cool.

Do you have an opinion / info about the Remington 6.8-mm? As opposed to the M-16's 5.56-mm NATO round?

[stalkere]

Lesse if this table will post - using F=MV^2
here is my calculations for various rounds

Bullet Foot-lbs
.45 ACP 461.10
9MMx19 264.17
.38 Special 116.33
7.62x39 1796.63
5.56x51 1764.95
6.8x43mm 1768.31
7.62x51 mm 2470.08



As I said before - foot pounds is not the end of it, as the bullet can simply penetrate, and pass on through, imparting minimal energy to your target.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by stalkere

Penetration is not always good. That's one of the major fallacies of trying to interpret results without looking at the whole picture - particularly if you haven't been in combat.

The big thing in combat shooting is, "How much energy from the bullet is transferred to the target?"

E= m (v^2) is a large part, but not the only part.

So, getting back to the practical aspects. Lesse, my personal experience is that I've shot a few guys with the 9mm, didn't kill any of those four. Both fellows I shot with the .45 were DRT - dead right there, one shot each. Now, all six fellows were center-of-mass hits, but two 9mm in center of mass left the fellow still shooting at me until one of my troops put some 5.56 in his skull.

And no, I'm not talking about video games, I'm talking about personal experience. So, yes, I do like the .45 for very practical reasons, OK?

Christ, I'd never want a pistol as a personal weapon. I'll take the inconvenience of the extra weight.

As an aside, I actually despise my M4. Back in the Corps they use mostly M16. My personal rifle was an A2 with mismatched upper and lower receivers. Shoot like a doll. Now that I'm in the Guard, my weapon is an M4, complete with all the Picatinny rails, and an ACOG sight. But even with the stock fully extended I can't get good effin eye relief on the sight. Six years of the M16 has given me flawless muscle memory... for the M16!!

[Nikephoros]

Matt, you're just behind the times.

[Matt]

Clearly. It feels like a damned toy. I can't imagine what it would have been like as an old timer to go from an M14 to M16.

[Ward]

Originally Posted by Matt

Clearly. It feels like a damned toy. I can't imagine what it would have been like as an old timer to go from an M14 to M16.

It felt like we were being handed toys .

[drakkon]

Originally Posted by Matt

Clearly. It feels like a damned toy. I can't imagine what it would have been like as an old timer to go from an M14 to M16.

When I served in the Canadian Armed Forces I trained on the FN-FAL. Now that was a Rifle with a capital R. Then we switched over to the C7. Blaarg.

Yep, it felt like a toy.

[stalkere]

Originally Posted by Matt

Clearly. It feels like a damned toy. I can't imagine what it would have been like as an old timer to go from an M14 to M16.

In the Navy, we had 12ga shotguns, M-14s and M-16s aboard ship, for the boarding parties. As a Fleet Marine Force Corpsman, I carried the .45 1911, 12 ga shotgun and the M-16. As an AF Officer on TALCE duty, I carried the M-9 and the M-16.

Personally, I like the weapon that best fits what I'm doing. Didn't like the M-14 for boarding parties, but it was fantastic for long range work. As a corpsman, I preferred the 12ga pump - it was what I was most familiar with, and good for close-in stuff. After a long patrol, carrying the M-16 was a whole lot better than the M-14. A rifle I'm too tired to put on target, or so long, I can't engage a close-in target is not what I need.

Best weapon? The Reaper. I can sit in an air-conditioned bunker back in the World, rain death on the enemy, and go home after every shift.